China: Interview with Ming of Living Stone Church

Living Stone Church in China has been the target of intense government repression over the past few years, and we’ve been keeping you updated on developments in their case – especially the imprisonment of some of the church’s leaders. It’s an incredibly difficult time for the whole church community. We spoke to one of the church members to find out the latest.

Thank you for speaking to us today! Let’s start with your own church’s case. You are a member of Living Stone Church in Guizhou, which has been the target of a government campaign. Tell us a little about how the church began, and when the problems started. 

Our church was founded in 2009 in Guiyang city, Guizhou Province. At first we had about 20 people and we just gathered in someone’s home, but it grew quickly. By 2013, it was the biggest unregistered ‘house church’ in the area. 

The church brought together people from all different backgrounds – people from the countryside and people from the city, people who were well-off and people less well-off. Two of the leaders, Pastor Yang and Pastor Su, were also from humble backgrounds. They were not the most highly educated or well-connected people, but they answered the call of God to lead the church. It’s really amazing for two people from humble backgrounds to follow that calling and gradually build up a large church like this! 

The problems with the government started around 2015. We had about 700 members by then. The authorities began to monitor our activities. They would come to services and were very disruptive. They declared that we were an illegal religious group and tried to force us to close. All the members came under a lot of pressure. Several people were arrested. 

Recently, one of the church’s pastors was convicted of ‘intentionally divulging state secrets’, and the other pastor is already in prison. How are the two pastors doing, and what is the situation for the church now? 

Both Pastor Su and Pastor Yang were accused of the same crime, revealing state secrets, but this is just an excuse to take away their freedom. There are two more pastors in the church, but Su and Yang were the main leaders. The other two pastors were not arrested but they are not allowed to preach freely. [Ed.: Other church officials including one of the deacons were also imprisoned.]

Pastor Su is serving a suspended sentence. He is in good spirits, but he has to report to the police every week for a kind of self-criticism session. His family is overseas. You can imagine how difficult it is for him to be apart from his wife and children. He cannot travel freely and has to stay in his local area. 

Pastor Yang is in prison but he will be released in June, we think. We’ve heard that he is talking to people in prison about Jesus! He is allowed to see his family once a month. At first they were only allowed to be together for 30 minutes, but it’s less restricted now. No one else is allowed to visit, though, only his family. He is also allowed one ten-minute phone call with his family every month. 

Before he had a problem with inflammation in his legs. This has got better but overall he is not in good physical condition. He has skin problems, and a problem with his spine. The spine problem is an old complaint, but the leg and skin problems began in prison. He has received some medical care in prison, but only basic treatment. 

The police regularly follow Pastor Yang’s wife. It has been very stressful for the family. Their son is also stigmatised at school because his father is in prison. [Ed.: Pastor Yang was released from prison on 19 June 2018.]

The church members have now broken down into small groups, a maximum of 20 in each. We want to gather all together but we are waiting for the opportunity. About half the members have already left though. They felt afraid. The government threatened that they would lose their jobs or warned that their children would not get good educational opportunities. They said anything they could to put them under pressure. 

How do you think what happened to Living Stone Church fits into a broader pattern of religious freedom violations in China? Is this happening to other churches too? 

The crackdown on Living Stone Church was like an experiment. Now the authorities see that this is an effective approach, they have adopted this approach in many different regions in China. For unregistered churches which are trying to maintain their independence from the Three Self Patriotic Movement [TSPM, the official Protestant umbrella organisation], life will be very difficult. 

Recently the government introduced revised religious affairs legislation. What’s your opinion of the regulations and what might they mean for churches in China?

In my opinion the ultimate goal of the government is not to eliminate all the churches; the goal is to tightly control them, to have them follow what the government says. For the house churches and other churches that want to be independent, life will be very, very difficult in the future. The authorities will use every possible method to destroy their independence. 

Churches registered with the TSPM are also under pressure. The authorities are exercising complete control over them. The pastors and members are very uncomfortable but most do not dare to fight back. In order to survive, they have to compromise. 

The new regulations clearly show the government’s determination to tightly control the churches. It is very clear – the regulations are a declaration: there will be zero tolerance for churches who want independence from the government. 

>>Find out more about Living Stone Church at www.csw.org.uk/china-livingstone